Refurbished Choppers for Afghanistan?
I don't know about anyone else, but I find this report rather troubling. Ever since Canada re-deployed to Kandahar from Kabul, it has been obvious that the single biggest asset we were lacking was helicopter transport. It shouldn't have required the Manley report stating the obvious to make this happen. As far as I'm concerned, we should have moved on this issue long time ago.
Canada seeks refurbished U.S. army helicopters for use in Afghanistan
By Murray Brewster, THE CANADIAN PRESS
LONDON - Canada's Defence Department has approached the Pentagon about obtaining as many as six refurbished U.S. army battlefield helicopters for use in Afghanistan, defence sources tell The Canadian Press.
The request for information was made as part of a worldwide search for medium-lift transport to get Canadian soldiers off the dangerous highways and biways of Kandahar.
Almost two years ago, Canada's air force was offered, but turned down access to used Chinooks under a program called Cargo Helicopter Alternate Procurement Strategy, or CHAPS.
With the Manley commission laying down helicopters as a requirement for extending Canada's mission, defence officials are scrambling to fill the order.
The helicopters said to be under consideration are 'D' model CH-47 Chinooks, a slightly older variety of the 'F' model Canada's air force hopes to buy, said a NATO source.
The aircraft would be refurbished by Boeing and would be available for delivery well within the one-year time frame set out by the independent commission.
"There's not a lot of time, but its doable," said a defence source.
The aircraft come with few frills, but would contain at a minimum a defence suite of machine-guns, flares and chafe to protect against ground-based attack.
The cost is said to be $15 million per aircraft - or less than half of the pricetag of a new one. A brand new Chinook can go for up to $40 million in some cases.
Canadian pilots have already been training on CH-47s in the U.S. and Australia in anticipation of the Tory government's long-promised $4.7 billion purchase of 16 brand new Chinooks.
That could help speed the introduction of the refurbished ones, said the NATO source, who asked not to be named.
posted by WE Speak at 11:54 p.m.
12 Comments:
Sounds great, but will tese 6 'D' class chinooks be in adition to the 16 new choppers they are expecting?
My guess would be yes, although nothing is confirmed at this point.
Sounds like an excellent idea, "the shortest distance between two points". And with CF helicopter pilots already cross-training on CH-47s in the US and Australia, it sounds both very do-able in a short time and also, at the Boeing refurb. price, very cost-effective.
Another thought, speaking now as a former USAF aircraft ground tech:
Since it takes time to set up a cross-training program and infrastructure for ground maintenance technician training, the fact that these CH-47Ds are US Army milspec, the US ground support crews in Af-stan could provide maintenance in the interim. That'd prevent any delay due to ground support issues, while Canadian maintenance techs are being trained.
So out of all our NATO Allies, we have one good one, one nation that will go out of their way to help us in a time of need.
Maybe the Germans should take note
and this could have been us if we had moved as fast as the Aussies. Wonder if any of the pilots are CAF ??
http://tinyurl.com/2hnjl9
Nice.
Im sure the CF could really use the extra 6 Chinook's as well, especially if DND wants to form a new airborne unit or some form of a maritime/shipborne unit.
"So out of all our NATO Allies, we have one good one, one nation that will go out of their way to help us in a time of need."
Well, thanks very much, Fred. Kind of you to say.
(Lets remember some of our other allies: the Aussies, Dutch, Danes, Poles and Romanians, who are doing some "heavy lifting" with limited resources.)
As far as Canada and America, it works both ways.
The first example that comes to mind: I don't think the US Marines will ever forget the enormous help that detachment of Canadian Army snipers gave them in that battle in Af-stan a few years ago. When the Marines were in that very sticky situation in that Af-stan battle with Al Qaeda forces on that mountaintop, those very brave and incredibly skilled Canadian snipers, at great risk to their own lives, saved at least dozens, maybe a hundred or more Marine lives.
That too is "going out of their way to help us in a time of need."
Thank YOU, too, Dave. Too little of the close co-operation of our two nations is in the public's scope of understanding. Unfortunately, the goodwill is more often than not, one directional. Your country to ours. Again, thanks good neighbor.
I am curious about just how different a U.S. Army-spec CH-47 is from something Can-spec? the main running gear will be the same, the fuselage is going to be the same. I can only really see there being a difference with the radios and nav gear, or possible having or not having NVG's already integrated. The 'new' ones should have NVG as standard equipment. The 'old' ones will have older tech components, the new ones will have 'newer stuff. Other than that, a Chinook is a Chinook.
arctic front, merci a vous, aussi! (hey, I still remember some of my high school French! :-)
As to your question, my knowledge about helicopters could be written on the back of a postage stamp. (In my service days, I worked on B-52s and KC-135s.) So, I did a quick check of the Boeing site.
The D model came out in the early 80's. Under the Boeing refurbishment sale program, the Ds are fully overhauled at the Boeing factory, the electronics are updated (with the whole machine made ready for any modular upgrades coming out in the future) They're made available for sale to allied nations who need such versatile heavy lift helicopters ASAP and prefer a much less expensive model than a brand new F model.
The Fs have new, more powerful engines, the latest cockpit electronics and LCD screens for pilot and co-pilot. There's lots more info at the Boeing Ch-47 webpage at
http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ch47d/index.htm
It gives a very good explanation and comparison between the D and F models.
Damn, it truncated the URL!
The complete Boeing Ch-47 URL is:
http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/
military/ch47d/index.htm
This is troubling but not surprising. The air force can often be surprisingly ignorant of army needs especially when helos are concerned. Tac Hel is the bastard child of the CF.
Despite what the article claims, there are no CF Pilots currently training in the U.S. or elsewhere on Chinooks. I believe there maybe one on exchange in the UK.
There are a very few guys still around that flew the old Chinook D's but most of these guys are close to retirement.
@artic_front, NVGs are self contained and helmet mounted so aircraft do not come equipped with that capability. The main issue is if the cockpit lighting is NVG-friendly, ie. too many red lights can wash out the goggles as they are more sensitive in that end of the colour spectrum.
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